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Jeff B's avatar

"Out beyond ideas of wrong doing and right doing, there is a field, I'll meet you there - Rumi

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Dr. Radha Lee's avatar

This is the Hindu concept of Maya, or illusion. We all have to live in Maya, that is the human condition. But we always strive to transcend the entanglements of Maya with enlightened living. When you are in Maya, you can only be stuck in money pursuits and also more deeply, in the karmic burdens of the past. Karmic burdens are psychological- ie you’re unable to shake off generational trauma bc you’ve not done the inner work. If you do the inner work and learn to live in the present as much as possible, then you can shake off karma and proceed with dharmic action. Dharma is just living in the moment doing what your inner truth tells you is right. This is the path to enlightenment.

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Molly Bell's avatar

Loved this article and loved your latest solo episode Elise. Just fyi - I think people might want more of your solo episodes on Substack, and with your work on abundance that might be a good offering for your community. I would like it anyhow! I also love your idea of office hours. Ironically my husband lost his job at the same time as I’m starting to do my best work on stage as a musical theater writer/performer doing solo work. So I’m really having a reckoning with abundance, letting go, staying the path towards universe two when our income has gone down to nothing except for the money I make teaching voice lessons and the little I get from my publisher for my plays. Your latest episode was helpful to me on this track so thank you!

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Elise Loehnen's avatar

Oh good, I'm so glad! Good luck out there!

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Sarah's avatar

Another raised hand for more solos!

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Allison Deraney's avatar

Molly - I agree. I love (and get so much from) Elise's solo episodes.

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Pam Consear's avatar

Thanks for this discussion, Elise! Universe 1 and 2 gives me such a clear way to view the tension I constantly feel (which you name). I've made big changes in my life in order to live almost entirely in Universe 2 where the meaning is high and palpable: I make art, teach art, study and perform flamenco, and write a Substack. My lifestyle is relatively simple, so I can afford to make very little money. The problems arise when I start comparing my situation--including the value I feel I contribute to the world--with Universe 1 standards. Then the doubt and shame creep in.

This view of the 2 universes also perfectly encapsulates our political moment, where most of our leaders are stuck in 1 and seem to have forgotten the existence--or have convinced themselves of the worthlessness--of Universe 2. We're all suffering from their forgetfulness.

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Elise Loehnen's avatar

Yes, and this is what Phil calls "the Biphasic Fantasy" playing out—not only do I need to win, but I only win if you lose.

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Pam Consear's avatar

Yes. It's so harmful! But so many of us in this country have been raised within a version of it. Our work is to be salmon swimming upstream against it. 🙃

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Chelsey Tung's avatar

I love the framing of the two Universes. Universe 1 is unavoidable for most of us but I think if enough time is spent in Universe 2 you can learn to navigate 1 from a more authentic and integrated place. As always, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us, Elise!

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Allison Deraney's avatar

"No longer having to compete to discover who you are." That is it. That is what makes the straddling and ping ponging between Universes worth it.

I bought True and False Magic after listening to your episode with Phil on Rich Roll's podcast. The conversation the three of you had landed hard on me (in the best way).

This book is blowing me open. I am particularly surprised at my now willingness to take action quickly (the speed of it). I am someone who lives in my head and needs perfect conditions to "do the thing." I am currently reading the chapter on Uncertainty and the (seemingly) simple practice of making smaller decisions, quickly and more often, to train my muscle of intuition and instinct. Ooof. Needed this.

Thanks, Elise.

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Sebene Selassie's avatar

These remind me of the Buddhist concept of the paradox of the two truths, the absolute (universe 2) and the relative (universe 1). The reason it’s a paradox is they’re both true. There is an absolute reality of irrefutable interdependence (the entire universe is literally vibrating energy patterns connected throughout time and space). There is a relative reality of mundane stuff (I need to make a living and navigate the beauty and horrors of the world being who I am in time and space). I like to say «we are not separate AND we are not the same. » Understanding and accepting paradox is the work of a lifetime! And I am here for it! 🥰

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Elise Loehnen's avatar

I love this!

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Holly Whitaker's avatar

One of the most brilliant things thank you for helping shape some thoughts I’ve been having. I need to read this book—on the list

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Elise Loehnen's avatar

Thanks bubs!

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Allison Deraney's avatar

The book is blowing me open. Holly, I would love to read your take on it after you finish reading.

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Holly Whitaker's avatar

I have it! I will!! Thanks for the nudge.

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Cristy De La Cruz's avatar

I've been living in Universe 2 for about 5 years now. It's lovely. Now that I've spent 3/4 of the funds I saved for retirement while I was in the corporate world (I'll be 51 next month), it might be time to return to a bridge space, living in Universe 1 while I have weekly sojourns to Universe 2 perhaps. (My manifesting friends say I need to use the term investing, not spending...does that change the reality of where I am? Not a lot.)

After writing my first book, producing 140+ episodes of a podcast, and trying a number of other creative collaborations, I wouldn't trade that time for anything. 🎉

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Susan Shier's avatar

Love the concept of the 2 universes. Currently reading True and False Magic - Phil has some great lessons and I'm currently super into taking care of my life force.

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Sabrina Y. Smith's avatar

Love this 🙌 and it felt encouraging to read as I feel like, since launching my Substack and related offerings, I’ve been living in Universe 2!

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