Listen now (77 mins) | “All growing up stages are the product of scientific investigation of the stages of growing up that people go through. And those are all defined in third person terms..."
I'm loving the spiral dynamics convos - thank you for leading/sharing. I had some questions that I kept wanting you to ask Wilbur that I wondered if you've contemplated because I know you're far better read on spiral dynamics than me:
I find his critique of "wokeism" pretty close-minded to be honest, so maybe that is clouding my judgment, but when he uses Harvard as his example of green gone wrong, he says they're wrong because they aren't getting the so-called highest qualified students. But it seems to me that they're valuing diversity as a value on its own, and so that metric becomes more important than standardized test scores for example. How can Wilbur dictate what metric is "best?" Maybe I'm stuck in my post-rational green worldview, but it seems to me that the next stages beyond green should include the post-modern idea of many things being true at the same time, while transcending the idea that all of the things should have equal footing. In Wilbur's discussion about diversity, he seemed to think he was the authority and/or there is an obvious on what metric should be the highest or "rightest." This seems to fly in the face of how he so helpful discusses how there are different types of intelligence beyond the cognitive.
On the wokeism stuff, I find myself irritated in both the Wilbur conversation and the intro conversation on the podcast because white people have appropriated this word from Black culture that had quite a different original meaning for and among Black communities, and us white people have turned it around to use in an umbrella way that just feels like more colonizing. Maybe it's dumb and pointless to be frustrated about that, but I think words matter and we should be careful to critique the actual problem instead of repeating soundbytes from MAGA-style politicians with agendas. For example, I think you and Wilbur made some great points about the college protests this spring, but I wish we would do a better job of articulating what it is that is the problem instead of lumping it under some stolen word that has lost all meaning outside of signaling which side of the culture wars you fall on.
Thanks again for hosting such engaging conversations!
Ken using the term "wokism" is disappointing. As well as his cliched take on it.
I'm loving the spiral dynamics convos - thank you for leading/sharing. I had some questions that I kept wanting you to ask Wilbur that I wondered if you've contemplated because I know you're far better read on spiral dynamics than me:
I find his critique of "wokeism" pretty close-minded to be honest, so maybe that is clouding my judgment, but when he uses Harvard as his example of green gone wrong, he says they're wrong because they aren't getting the so-called highest qualified students. But it seems to me that they're valuing diversity as a value on its own, and so that metric becomes more important than standardized test scores for example. How can Wilbur dictate what metric is "best?" Maybe I'm stuck in my post-rational green worldview, but it seems to me that the next stages beyond green should include the post-modern idea of many things being true at the same time, while transcending the idea that all of the things should have equal footing. In Wilbur's discussion about diversity, he seemed to think he was the authority and/or there is an obvious on what metric should be the highest or "rightest." This seems to fly in the face of how he so helpful discusses how there are different types of intelligence beyond the cognitive.
On the wokeism stuff, I find myself irritated in both the Wilbur conversation and the intro conversation on the podcast because white people have appropriated this word from Black culture that had quite a different original meaning for and among Black communities, and us white people have turned it around to use in an umbrella way that just feels like more colonizing. Maybe it's dumb and pointless to be frustrated about that, but I think words matter and we should be careful to critique the actual problem instead of repeating soundbytes from MAGA-style politicians with agendas. For example, I think you and Wilbur made some great points about the college protests this spring, but I wish we would do a better job of articulating what it is that is the problem instead of lumping it under some stolen word that has lost all meaning outside of signaling which side of the culture wars you fall on.
Thanks again for hosting such engaging conversations!